Its looking good

[wildcobrar]

Just got off the phone with a repeat customer.  I built him a heavy hitting 455 Pontiac engine for hi Firebird.     Now he just scored a trunk model 88 Fox Mustang.  It will be a 5 spd with a small block Ford in it.  All motor set up.   Any guess as to what it just might be??


Joe   

[TooNuts]

302??

[wildcobrar]

Clevor !!!  I am looking to go big power with some RPM.  Looking into another set of Blue Thunder 3.6 heads.   And a light weight rotating assembly with 408 cubes.


Joe

[Ft. Campbell Busa]

Clevor !!!  I am looking to go big power with some RPM.  Looking into another set of Blue Thunder 3.6 heads.   And a light weight rotating assembly with 408 cubes.


Joe

Sounds cool but way over my head!

[wildcobrar]

The crank shaft will be at least 12 pounds lighter than stock even though I will be going to a 4.00" stroke vs. the stock 3.50" stroke.   This also helps me get the piston weight down because the pin height will be alot shorter than the Windsor stock piston.  I will be going to a light weight "I" Beam rod too that is slightly longer than stock.  This too will be lighter than the stock connecting rod.

Now that we have a rotating assembly that is very light compared to stock and given it is a small block, I will be utilizing some RMP to make power.  The 351W also has an advantage over the 302 because I am not limmited to the 302 engine block not handling the HP that can be generated with this combo.

This is where some people make mistakes.  They take a Small block engine, and they add cubes and they put an after market head on there that is designed to run on a well built 302.  Remember, we are using a 4.00" stroke on a 4.030" bore.  This comes out to 408 cubic inches.  This 351 Windsor is no longer a small block.  It is a Big Block in a small block's clothing.A Wolf in Sheep's clothing so to speak)

I have decided yo use a Cleveland style head but not to be different, but to to take advantage on the average "area" in these heads.  The valve angles are in the engine's favour too.  Flow can be important but it is not the whole thing that makes or breaks the combo.  The flow is only part of the storey.   There are valve shrouding issues that come into play with inline Windsor heads when used on a 4.00" bore.  The Cleveland style head, along with high Port and twisted wedge heads including the "R" from Trick Flow help us get away from this.  The Ford Racing Z304 head is good at getting us away from valve to cylinder wall shrouding too.

My choice will be the Cleveland style head because it has better valve locations and angles, it has more average area in the port and can utilize larger valves needed for the larger cubes so that the 408 inch engine can actually breathe.

How many of us here would do very well running a quarter of a mile with a soda staw in our mouth and trying to breathe through it while on our run?  See my point?

All the research I have done plus the experience I have had using good cylinder heads on the larger cube small blocks has taught me to run the Canted Valve Cleveland head on these engines.

Every wonder why John Kaase has used them in "Engine Masters" with great success?  Because they work period.

My client is going to be in for a very big surprise when he gets his Mustang back from me.

Joe

[TooNuts]

Ugghh still no heads.

[wildcobrar]

My cylinder head porter is on the search for you.  I think he might be able to find you a pair local to him.  It saves you on the shipping because you will only need to ship one way.

Joe

[TooNuts]

Some that aint to expensive with the work would be nice hehehe

[wildcobrar]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=po2w4bJdZNs

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V3KucUKrSqQ&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X6ns9OVSor8&feature=related

Just some interesting videos.

Joe

[Ft. Campbell Busa]

Jay Allen always preached this also about a 4.00 stroke being a "Big Block".

[TooNuts]

Seen all those except the last one.. Honestly though if i built a 408 and if it ran 10.68@123 i would burn it.. lol

[wildcobrar]

I was discussing that with my guy at Ford Racing.  A 408 Cleveland built right should do way better than that.

As far as the 4.00" stroke being a big block deal, it is actually true.  That longer stroke makes the thing really want to pull air.  You know what a 3.85 series Ford engine is???   It is a 429/460 Big Block.  The 429 has a 3.50 stroke and the 460 and the 3.85 stroke.  Now you know where the 385 series name comes from.

Take RPM on a small block.   That 7000 RPM makes the enigine pull way more air than your typical stock set up.  Now add 4.00" stroke to it and through 7000 plus RPM at it.  Now you need a bigger than average way of thinking cylinder head and intake.  With all the available stroker combinations out there that we can buy at a reasonable price.  One can see that a "Race" cylinder head, or a "Race" style intake no longer only be needed in a "Track Only" car.

I have some over sized "Race" parts on my junk.  And it works.  Trust me, I know. 

Joe

[duane]

Joe, some cool videos!! I like seeing the Cleveland stuff!!!

[Ft. Campbell Busa]

I was discussing that with my guy at Ford Racing.  A 408 Cleveland built right should do way better than that.

As far as the 4.00" stroke being a big block deal, it is actually true.  That longer stroke makes the thing really want to pull air.  You know what a 3.85 series Ford engine is???   It is a 429/460 Big Block.  The 429 has a 3.50 stroke and the 460 and the 3.85 stroke.  Now you know where the 385 series name comes from.

Take RPM on a small block.   That 7000 RPM makes the enigine pull way more air than your typical stock set up.  Now add 4.00" stroke to it and through 7000 plus RPM at it.  Now you need a bigger than average way of thinking cylinder head and intake.  With all the available stroker combinations out there that we can buy at a reasonable price.  One can see that a "Race" cylinder head, or a "Race" style intake no longer only be needed in a "Track Only" car.

I have some over sized "Race" parts on my junk.  And it works.  Trust me, I know. 

Joe

Exactly....................The 3.85 was the one I had in mind above when I posted about Jay Allen. He always used that as an example with the 393 and 460. I realized it prior to when I first built one (393) and saw it when I was looking at an Eagle crank................I thought...........hey this is the same crank as a 460! I made the mistake of putting a head on that one that did not even flow 300cfm! Live and learn.

[wildcobrar]

I was discussing that with my guy at Ford Racing.  A 408 Cleveland built right should do way better than that.

As far as the 4.00" stroke being a big block deal, it is actually true.  That longer stroke makes the thing really want to pull air.  You know what a 3.85 series Ford engine is???   It is a 429/460 Big Block.  The 429 has a 3.50 stroke and the 460 and the 3.85 stroke.  Now you know where the 385 series name comes from.

Take RPM on a small block.   That 7000 RPM makes the enigine pull way more air than your typical stock set up.  Now add 4.00" stroke to it and through 7000 plus RPM at it.  Now you need a bigger than average way of thinking cylinder head and intake.  With all the available stroker combinations out there that we can buy at a reasonable price.  One can see that a "Race" cylinder head, or a "Race" style intake no longer only be needed in a "Track Only" car.

I have some over sized "Race" parts on my junk.  And it works.  Trust me, I know. 

Joe

Exactly....................The 3.85 was the one I had in mind above when I posted about Jay Allen. He always used that as an example with the 393 and 460. I realized it prior to when I first built one (393) and saw it when I was looking at an Eagle crank................I thought...........hey this is the same crank as a 460! I made the mistake of putting a head on that one that did not even flow 300cfm! Live and learn.

I agree, form me one third of the hobby's fun is learning, the other third of the fun is helping others, and finally just getting out and racing and having good times meeting people and talking to them is the other third of the fun.

I love to see when others succeed in getting their stuff to run hard,

Joe